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[abrightboy]

This is Bright. Leave a message.

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[lestercraft]

[He's for once glad that he solely uses audio to talk with people, so Malcolm can't see him rubbing his face for a few seconds.

Because that was a lot.]

While I can't speak in fairness for Sheehan's motives, and I wouldn't presume to, I can say, based on my own observations of Crozier that he is a... magnificent specimen of stubbornness. He seems the type to, when he's made up his mind, to be utterly unshakable. An admirable trait in someone who has to deal with inmates such as Dr Hilbert, a-and to undertake the Franklin expedition at all, but with others, he... appears to listen to his own stubbornness more than his peers opinions.

He only contacted Sheehan after he'd already been infected, for example. And that Sheehan did also attempt to negotiate him into returning as a counsellor at the time. Observably, it isn't a breach of ethics to make an effort to turn someone away from a known suicidal option only to have the victim refute help.

[abrightboy]

It's not about what Francis chose to do. It's about Sheehan being cool with Hilbert doing it and even defending him publicly for doing it, but not giving my relationship - which is not a power-imbalanced disaster - an ounce of leeway on being 'wildly inethical' to a degree that makes me unsuitable for counseling in his eyes - something he felt the need to point out even when I wasn't offering that. I tried and tried and tried to build a bridge with him and all he's done is condescend to me and lecture me and then something truly grossly unethical happens and he's the first guy jumping on the network to defend the person doing it. If he can give a little and look at the specific situation for them, he can do it for me and he's just choosing not to.

[lestercraft]

With all respect to Crozier, while his methods do leave something to be desired, the fact that Hilbert did graduate shortly afterwards does suggest that occasionally extreme measures are required in order to push someone the last step towards graduation.

Not to get sidetracked from the discussion, but I'm struggling to see how Crozier consenting and actively involving himself in an experiment he knew would kill him is- is an issue of ethics on the part of anyone else besides Hilbert, who required the situation to begin with.

[abrightboy]

It's not about Crozier. It's not about Hilbert. It's about Sheehan judging stuff by different standards and being lenient on one issue while being strict on another; one that's objectively causing way less harm.

[lestercraft]

[Finally a succinct summary.]

And you believe this lenience is a double standard, rather than Dr Sheehan- learning, being willing to adapt in some ways.

[His voice remains the same polite inquiry as he started, no hint of accusation whatsoever.]

[abrightboy]

I don’t know, Arthur, but if you change the harsh and unfair opinion you expressed to someone about their life and don’t tell them, does it change anything? Jesus told me Sheehan talked to him about how unprofessional and unethical I am for being with Will, too. If you share your harsh and unfair opinion about someone with a third party - legitimize their harsh and unfair view with your credentials, even - and then that third party attacks the person for the actually harmless thing they’re doing, how much responsibility do you share for the distress caused the person that’s just trying to live their life?

[lestercraft]

...it doesn't, no. But if someone who changed their opinion were to begin practising new behaviours in line with that, and had no reason to believe that in bringing up the topic that they would receive any positive reception, it would be- reasonable, in that knowledge, to remain at a distance.

And- again, while I can't disagree that Sheehan discussing your circumstances was... less than ideal, it's hardly uncommon here for people to- to gossip, frankly. That he found a receptive target for his ire is one thing - but for Jesus to then turn around and attack you for it himself is- I'm not truly sure that can be blamed on Sheehan, especially given the ease of which anyone here can discover another's relationships. Undoubtedly if he hadn't discovered it from Sheehan, Jesus would have found out on his own and found a way to take his ire out on you independently.

[abrightboy]

Jesus already knew about my relationship. He just didn’t find it completely reprehensible until professional counselling agreed with him, apparently. Also, as a professional in the workings of the human mind, I’d think that if I was expressing anger at him about one specific thing, he could work out that he would receive the opposite of anger for doing the opposite. Do you know for a fact that he’s changed his mind or are you looking for a logical way for the duelling ethics stances to just not be raging hypocrisy? Like I said, I’ve reached out to him trying to build a bridge a bunch of times and he’s not into it, but if he has changed his mind, I wouldn’t bite his head off for contacting me about it.

[lestercraft]

Knowing logically that the approach of explaining things to you might yield something positive pales in comparison to the reality that every time you have a conversation someone's head gets bitten off.

[Not naming names, Malcolm Bite.]

If every conversation of yours plays out the same way, the logical result would be that he has no reason to suspect you'd believe him on having a change of perspective, nor that you'd respond differently to the news except to accuse him of further hypocrisy - whether he has changed is irrelevant in the face of your evidential hatred of him. Emotions don't listen to logic, Bright, they dictate them, and so long as you hold on to this fury, you won't have any reason to hear him out.

[abrightboy]

I don't hate him. All my fury wants to hear him say is that he's willing to entertain a different perspective. I didn't start furious, Arthur. It built up over time.

I haven't bitten your head off for bringing it up. I can talk about it. I'd like to resolve things. Like I said: I tried. His exact words the last time I reached out to him to sit down and talk were, and I quote "Why would I talk to you?" So who's the biter and who's the bitee?

[lestercraft]

We can discuss it calmly because I'm a party with whom you don't have any negative rapport. At worst, we're indifferent.

But with Sheehan - what was frustration is now a standing grudge. And again, he has no evidence to suggest that he should expect you to give him the time of day if he were to make the approach himself, let alone that you'd listen to him make a case.

[Which, okay, maybe Arthur is biased, because he doesn't think Sheehan's actually in the wron. But he's also not wrong~]

If this is to be resolved, I fear you may have to be the bigger man and make it clear that you won't harbour ill will- that you'll be willing to listen without making emotional judgements when you hear what he has to say.

[abrightboy]

I have no evidence to suggest he'd give me the time of day; he brushed me off the last, like, six times. I'd love to resolve this. I'd love to build a bridge where we can at least have a mutual professional respect. I outright told him I was interested in talking before, in building a bridge. I told him it's different if we're not talking about me, sort of joking, because I thought maybe we could talk about something less... fraught than my personal life and establish a baseline for communication there. He thought I was offering him therapy and when I said I wasn't he didn't even answer. I'm not asking to be his best buddy and hang out with him. But he's the one doing the brushing off, Arthur, so how does me reaching out to him yet again bring him to the table?

[lestercraft]

Perhaps don't treat the fact that he's upset with the situation as a joke, when you do reach out to him? Neither of you are flippant men - if I'd come to you making light of the fact you and Sheehan were arguing you'd have been offended, and quite rightfully. You both take the situations before you with their full weight- a-at least that's the impression you've given me so far, one I'd hope is accurate.

Sheehan will meet you halfway if you make a sincere offer to make amends. And I'm not saying that you're required to do all of the lifting in this scenario, but as you already noted, Sheehan is avoiding you. He's not going to seek closure on this when he's perfectly willing to ignore the issue entirely. So you are the one with options here, Mr Bright. Either continue hounding him for something he doesn't want to give you, make a sincere attempt to connect and hear him out without patronising the situation - or leave him be.

[abrightboy]

I didn't treat the situation as a joke. I made a very harmless joke about myself to try to break the ice in the freeze out I was experiencing. I never claimed not to be socially awkward, but I never made any jokes about him or our disagreement. So why don't you find out if he is actually willing to talk to me and I would be willing to talk to him also. Okay? We can meet in the middle of the figurative bridge.

[lestercraft]

If someone were to disparage themselves to me, Mr Bright, when they were expecting me to take them seriously - I wouldn't. It's as simple as that. Especially for a personal problem.

[abrightboy]

Well, apparently everyone is different. I’ll reach out to him myself, then. Thanks for the advice. I hope it’ll help bridge the gap.

[lestercraft]

Thank you for your patience, Bright. Best of luck.

[He's not actually sure if anything will come of it. But he's said his piece; that's on Malcolm now. And so he hangs up.]