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abrightboy

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From:

abrightboy

I didn't think either of us was doing that, but I think we would... benefit from extending each other understanding on that front, that we're not... against each other. My trauma just keeps rubbing your trauma the wrong way. But I'm not... intentionally trying to.... harm you or dismiss you or mistrust you and I can accept that while it felt like you were... being intentionally hostile to anything I said or did just because I said or did it, you weren't.... being hostile to me on a personal level so much as protecting yourself in the only way you've become accustomed to. Does that seem fair?

From:

handleyourshit

[It seems, to her, like a gross oversimplification; she also doesn't quite believe he didn't know exactly what he was doing whenever he threw in the piece of information that he's a warden, or a trauma counselor on the ship, or a homicide investigator. People utilize these kinds of facts about themselves to gain credibility with someone they don't have any with, and that's a choice.

But on the whole -]

Fair enough we could perhaps make some progress, if we both wanted to.

From:

abrightboy

[A choice - yes. But not for the reasons she thinks. He likes talking to people. Reaching out. Trying to connect. He tried talking about himself. He tried talking about her. Neither worked out. But his skills aren't the best and things he says are often easily taken in ways other than how he intended them.]

I want to. I always wanted to. What do you need from me to make that happen?

From:

handleyourshit

To believe I'll be heard when I talk, not just... a character actor in whatever story you're telling for yourself.

[She doubts that will make sense to him, but maybe if he can just let it not make sense, let her make that decision herself without trying to influence her one way or another, maybe.

Maybe.]

And... maybe an answer for why you'd want to. Clearly, we don't just get along naturally.

From:

abrightboy

[It's not exactly the same as what Shaw said to him, but it reminds him of it. Enough that he doesn't ask her to clarify it or argue or ask questions about it. It's not the only way she reminds him of Shaw.]

Okay.

[The reason...]

We live in the same community, we're working towards the same objectives... I want to be part of your solution, not one of your problems.

Why do you want to? [A beat, as it occurs to him that he's made an assumption and he amends the question to:] Do you want to?

From:

handleyourshit

I'd like to. Life is better when people get along, or at least can have a civil conversation, and I'm stuck here until I'm not or you decide to leave. If we can't get along, I'd like to at least not keep having to have every fight we've ever had any time I say something on the network.

And that's how it's getting: people who didn't like what I said or how I said something before are now just flat out dismissing me when I try to offer something in the present. I'm not saying I've been the friendliest person. I'm not saying I ever will be. But I'm not actively trying to break apart the ship, and I want the community to at least be stable and not terrible.

So... it's not necessary. I can just stay in my cabin and not talk to anyone or anything and I'll be fine. But it'd be nicer if we could.

From:

abrightboy

It would be nicer. And... if I can offer an observation without.... starting shit again.... you were very... bark that bites when you arrived and I understand how jarring it would have been for you, but your trauma was rubbing people's trauma the wrong way. Something I... have some experience with, obviously. That being said... most people here will acknowledge how hard it is for new people, especially if they haven't chosen to be here and I'm sure most of them would also be open to talking to you in a... clean slate sort of way. Um. Starting it like this, when there isn't a crisis going on, is good. It's a good way to do it.

From:

handleyourshit

So.

Let me just... lay out what this looks like from my perspective. Alright?

Inmates don't get a choice to come here. We don't get warning. We just die, and then we're here, and that's that. We are literally brought through in a moment of trauma.

Wardens do choose to come here. You do get at least some warning, and an idea of what's going on. Not only that, you can choose to leave whenever you like.

But it's still my fault that we were both in that position, and if not fault, I still bear the responsibility for reacting entirely reasonably for what I thought was happening? That doesn't sound victim blame-y to you?

Edited Date: 19 Aug 2024 21:29 (UTC)

From:

abrightboy

...I'm not blaming you. You said you were having ongoing issues with some people who reacted poorly to their first impression of you and I think... that making an effort to build a bridge there is a good idea. I don't actually know whether those people are inmates or wardens or a mixture. I just... thought it was good that you wanted to... take the communal route over isolating yourself. [He pauses.] What did you think was happening?

Edited Date: 19 Aug 2024 21:36 (UTC)

From:

handleyourshit

I haven't decided to take the communal route.

I'm starting with not wanting to get jumped on whenever I speak up on the network.

From:

abrightboy

Is the solution to that not being more part of the community?

[He's genuinely asking.]

From:

handleyourshit

I mean, here I am.

But I'm not going to walk on eggshells all the time. I'm not the girl that's going to ask please, sir, may I have a voice in the proceedings that determine what my life is going to be like for the foreseeable future.

If that's what it takes to be heard even when you're genuinely talking common sense, then I'm just as content to go back to waiting to be dead again.

From:

abrightboy

I don’t think anyone wants you to beg. I do think that, if other people have no reason to think you’re not going to still treat them like they’re the ones that put you here, then you maybe have to meet them halfway a bit. Like you’re doing with me, right now. Most Wardens do genuinely want to help inmates get out of here.

From:

handleyourshit

But only the nice ones.

Not the ones that actually need someone to help them, maybe.

From:

abrightboy

Maybe they want to help them too, but they don't know how. Maybe it's frustrating for them to try and to have that effort thrown back in their face. Maybe their trauma tells them that if they keep offering their hand, it will keep getting bit, so they stop. That doesn't mean they don't want to help. It could mean they maybe need you to tell them that it's okay with you if they try to help you now.

From:

handleyourshit

I understand that.

And Malcolm, when I say this, it's not singling you out. I'm not trying to tell you this is your fault, specifically, singularly.

But if people who choose to come here and deal with the population they know are going to also be here can't handle being the one to overcome their trauma and frustration and keep making the effort? Then it's their own fault that they're here. Inmates don't owe wardens anything, and maybe some of the people who come here as inmates aren't capable of making the gesture first.

From:

abrightboy

No, of course. And I'm not going to... go into what wardens actually know and don't know when they take this on, though maybe we can talk about it some time. But when a warden reaches out and reaches out and gets slapped and gets slapped... how many times do you think they should keep reaching out? And if the inmate makes it clear that they think the warden is an annoying piece of shit and they don't want to hear it, is continuing to try and engage helpful or is it harassment? There aren't really... easy answers to those questions. And not all of us are the best at navigating complicated social dynamics and understanding boundaries.

From:

handleyourshit

I realize the Admiral probably isn't the most forthcoming. But you know now.

[And still he's here.]

I get it. I just... my point is just that if everyone is going to insist on a divide, there's responsibility on one side. If I could have just gotten away from you so neither of us had to deal with each other, I would have, but I couldn't.

I can't.

From:

abrightboy

I don't actually want there to be a divide, honestly. I don't think you know how much shit I took for being in a relationship with Will Graham. And Jesus was one of the most... closed minded and condescending for it. That's basically what started the argument we were in when you got here. ...Still sorry for spilling that on you, by the way. Anyway, I guess none of us really gets a choice in that; it won't change the basic structure of how the Admiral set things up to work. And I do try to take my responsibilities seriously. But when I push too hard to engage with people who don't want me to - some of them inmates - I get even more shit than I do when I just... let them be. I thought it was my responsibility to try to help them whether they wanted me to or not, because of course they wouldn't if they didn't choose to be here, but it's so important to help them get free. But then there's leaving room for those people to at least have the personal agency of setting their own boundaries and backing off when they say that's what they want, so I've been trying that lately, because I don't want... to be more anyone's problem than I am part of their solution. And I truly don't know what the right answer is, when it comes to the choice between pushing past the resistance to prove that I care about helping them and backing off because someone is shouting in your face that that's what they want and it's right to respect that. I still don't. I know I don't want to just... not deal with you.

My inmate isn't talking to me at the moment. I told him I won't reach out again until he tells me it's okay to. Do you think that's a mistake?

From:

handleyourshit

You're not going to get far with insulting Jesus to me, still. Whatever beef you two have - all I'm going to say is he's not close minded or judgmental. I've been to war with the man. We've killed for each other, and he almost got killed for refusing to kill prisoners that absolutely would have killed us if they had the chance, and that we could literally starve if we took them on. Whatever issue you hit with him is not... trivial.

But I'm not in the middle of it. I don't want to be. If you try to do it again, an apology won't cover it. Alright?

From:

abrightboy

I wasn't trying to turn you against him or something. I was tr...

[He stops.]

All right.

From:

handleyourshit

[It's audio, so he won't see her slowly raising eyebrow as he starts, but he'll hear the approval when she says, ]

Thank you.

As for the rest - I think you should approach individuals as individuals. There's no one strategy that's going to work for other people and no shortcut to knowing who's who.

Why isn't Walter talking to you?

From:

abrightboy

I don’t really know. He talks in riddles. He didn’t like how I… well, no. He didn’t have a problem so much with how I handled the murder as with what he perceived as the public reception of how I handled the murder. He thinks I don’t understand… something. But I don’t know what because he tells me half sentences and I have to try to fill in the blanks like some sort of demented madlib and if my answers don’t match his answers, I can’t know the next half piece of information. But he was very clear about not wanting me to talk to him. He wrote me a letter.